tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post1663584194791906589..comments2024-03-29T03:17:26.651-04:00Comments on Romance Around the Corner: Heroine Week, Day 2 – The Appeal of the Unlikable Heroine or Why I'd totally Root for Scarlet to Beat Up Melanie by Nicole HelmRomance Around the Cornerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11204919057662563713noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-40270115756362530922013-07-14T09:14:41.796-04:002013-07-14T09:14:41.796-04:00I like those kinds of heroines too although I woul...I like those kinds of heroines too although I wouldn't root for Scarlet to beat up Melanie as I like both too much for that.The Insouciant Sophisticatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03934853089105345052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-15430546096145640902013-07-10T17:56:58.349-04:002013-07-10T17:56:58.349-04:00I think this is a really interesting distinction a...I think this is a really interesting distinction and something Rebecca touched a little bit on in her post. And I think you hit the nail on the head with the idea that self-awareness is a piece of what distinguishes them. I think most readers are much more drawn in by characters who are after something, who are active in their choices and their life--not just letting things happen to them. Wicked characters are hurting people on purpose and we're drawn to that because it is their passion, so to speak. I think people acting our their passion (no matter how screwy that passion is) is compelling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-75289405455169580382013-07-10T17:50:49.795-04:002013-07-10T17:50:49.795-04:00I think that's a good way of putting it--I don...I think that's a good way of putting it--I don't have to agree with what a character does, if I understand why they do it. That doesn't mean I automatically like every "unlikable" heroine whose motivations I understand, but I'm more likely to get there if I understand the motivation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-1146759028011253342013-07-10T11:39:08.426-04:002013-07-10T11:39:08.426-04:00Great post! But all this talk of what distinguishe...Great post! But all this talk of what distinguishes flawed heroines from unlikeable heroines has got me thinking about the other end of the spectrum. The wicked. <br /><br />Unlikeable protagonists are difficult for some readers to digest, but wickedness in a lead character is like crack. Seeing Richard III performed when I was a high school student marks the first time I truly felt for a villain. The scene where he seduces Lady Anne is made all the more chill-inducing because of the monologue he delivers just prior to it wherein he tells us exactly what he will do & why it will work. <br /><br />How is being wicked different from being unlikeable? <br /><br />Unlikeable characters are mean to others. They hurt others. Wicked characters are the same, except usually they inflict pain on a bigger and/or deeper scale. Unlikeable characters behave in ways that push people away. Wicked characters (like Richard III) bring people in, and then delight in crushing them. The wicked aren't closed off emotionally, the way the unlikeable character is. The wicked are scarred or stunted, but so are the unlikeable. Is it a quality of self-awareness about their own flaws that distinguishes these two? It is their ability/interest in changing their ways?<br /><br />Kate Lhttp://romance-around-the-corner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-8616457496638676712013-07-10T10:50:35.196-04:002013-07-10T10:50:35.196-04:00Yes, it is difficult to think of a better word for...Yes, it <i>is</i> difficult to think of a better word for a heroine who isn't a Melanie Wilkes. My love for a heroine boils down to understanding what makes her tick. I might not "like" her or relate to her, but if she works for the story and for the hero, I'm satisfied.Evangeline Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132593133675388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-37629702407828548612013-07-10T10:48:29.749-04:002013-07-10T10:48:29.749-04:00I sat down this morning and watched that and YES! ...I sat down this morning and watched that and YES! I think the most important word I heard in that segment was COMPELLING. Why I can like a character who does bad things for bad reasons: they are compelling. I don't have to like what they do, I only have to see that they have conviction in what they are doing. It's why I root for Scarlet even though she's, pretty much, a terrible human being. She is not letting life happen to her, even as she does all these not-so-nice things. She is full of conviction to do what (she thinks) needs to be done, and I can read that and root for that endlessly, even if the characters are not morally right.<br /><br />But, that's also a personal thing, because I value conviction, so it's something I will attach to in people. Other people who do not see that as important as something else like being good or being nice won't be able to relate to that in the same way.<br /><br />Thank you for sharing that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-83285047703924497022013-07-09T19:11:08.263-04:002013-07-09T19:11:08.263-04:00What a great post! Have you seen this? I like the ...What a great post! Have you seen this? I like the discussion about seeing every character, even the villain-ish ones, as the hero of his or her own story. http://www.onstory.tv/watch/309-heroes-and-anti-heroes-loving-the-villain/#Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-40965789415567165552013-07-09T19:09:25.161-04:002013-07-09T19:09:25.161-04:00I didn't love The Rebound Girl, but I loved wh...I didn't love The Rebound Girl, but I loved what the author did (or tried to do) with the heroine, who, BTW, would feel at home in Molly's post. Briehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694232807189281284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-3747376388519963822013-07-09T18:27:12.248-04:002013-07-09T18:27:12.248-04:00I'm not sure I could trust someone's judgm...I'm not sure I could trust someone's judgment if they thought otherwise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-20985572697609539872013-07-09T18:25:02.952-04:002013-07-09T18:25:02.952-04:00And I really like the distinction between a heroin...And I really like the distinction between a heroine who is unlikable because of the things they do and a heroine who is unlikable because the author failed (for whichever reader) to make the heroine likable or relatable. There have definitely been books where I was supposed to like a character, but couldn't because the author did not give me (personally) enough information to get there. It is definitely about execution, because some kick ass, prickly, mistake-making heroines don't work for me even though that's by hot zone. The author missed something I needed to get there.<br /><br />I did not love O'Keefe's Superromances that I've read, but it was one of those--this story doesn't work for me but I am going to keep reading this author because I can sense she's going somewhere that's going to work (if that makes sense). Her single titles though are some of my favorite romances though. Layered, nuanced, complex.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-50422380382978512832013-07-09T18:22:02.387-04:002013-07-09T18:22:02.387-04:00I am SO with you here. And I was reticent to use t...I am SO with you here. And I was reticent to use the label unlikable, but I'm not sure if there's a better word out there for what I was trying to get at. However, if I think the hero is an asshole who treats the heroine badly (even if there are REASONS) I have a hard time getting over that. Mistakes are one thing, being an ass all the time is a whole other ballgame.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-90598803770402108232013-07-09T18:19:46.558-04:002013-07-09T18:19:46.558-04:00I understand that viewpoint, but I wonder if we...I understand that viewpoint, but I wonder if we're getting caught up in the word "unlikable" here. Like Cherri pointed out, there's a difference between flawed and unlikable, and I think I was more getting at heroines who have monster flaws or mess up, but keep going. Some people see those flaws and screw ups as unlikable, and some people find them something to relate to.<br /><br />But I think a really skillful writer can make a person who does awful things engaging and worth reading about--even if I don't like them. Rebecca's post goes into this so well. I don't need characters I'd want to be friends with in real life. Like Sharon says, if they're not likable they can still be interesting or entertaining.<br /><br />At the end of the day though, readers are looking for different things, and there's nothing wrong with not wanting to read about people who do bad things for bad reasons. There are so many books out there, we'll all find the ones that strike the right chords with us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-44143869282514190562013-07-09T18:10:58.259-04:002013-07-09T18:10:58.259-04:00Likable or interesting or entertaining--exactly. T...Likable or interesting or entertaining--exactly. There are plenty of unlikable characters I hate or don't want to read about, but the best writers can make terrible people interesting or entertaining, and even if I don't like them--I'm all in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-34010410575883640882013-07-09T18:09:11.294-04:002013-07-09T18:09:11.294-04:00I think this unlikable versus flawed is an importa...I think this unlikable versus flawed is an important distinction, and I struggled with how to label what I was talking about. We all find different flaws likable or unlikable. We all relate to people differently. I'm all with you in the snarky corner, but we all know plenty of people who are uncomfortable with that.<br /><br />And, I agree, I like to see some piece of myself in there.<br /><br />So, it's a very personal thing--flaws and "unlikableness".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-67692920859029755142013-07-09T16:27:55.303-04:002013-07-09T16:27:55.303-04:00I love the title of this post. I so completely fal...I love the title of this post. I so completely fall on the Scarlet side rather than the Melanie side.Stephanie Doylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448686465587131952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-66078980797730115582013-07-09T16:24:28.867-04:002013-07-09T16:24:28.867-04:00I like the distinction Cherri brings up - flawed v...I like the distinction Cherri brings up - flawed vs. unlikable. I've read unlikable heroines I didn't like (at all) because the author failed (at least for me) to convey her flaws. If I believe in her flaws, in her emotional baggage, I'm not going to find her "unlikable" even if she may be a "challenging" character. Like a lot of things in genre fiction, it boils down to execution for me. I'll swallow just about anything if the author makes me believe.<br /><br />Gah - and now totally bookmarking this post so I can check out some of these titles. I've read some of O'Keefe's Superromances (and really enjoyed them!) but the single titles are languishing in the TBR because I suck like that.Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-43636826154892324462013-07-09T12:24:04.554-04:002013-07-09T12:24:04.554-04:00I guess one could say I enjoy reading about and wr...I guess one could say I enjoy reading about and writing "unlikable" heroines, but when I open a book or start my own novel, I don't fix labels to either protagonist--they are who they are. What's funny is that I'm usually baffled when someone says they are put off by my heroine, or if readers hate the heroine of someone else's book whom I loved! If anything, I hold the <i>heroes</i> to higher standards than my heroines; a book is ruined when I want to punch the hero in the face, LOL.Evangeline Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132593133675388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-29112745593131548852013-07-09T12:13:59.194-04:002013-07-09T12:13:59.194-04:00I never really understand this, to be honest.
If...I never really understand this, to be honest. <br /><br />If I find a character unlikeable then I don't like them. And if I don't like them, I probably don't want to spend hours reading about them and I probably won't be invested in them finding a happy ending. I don't care if they have flaws - and indeed, if a character doesn't have any flaws, I'll find them tough to like - but I've got to have some reason to want to hang out with them. <br /><br />If they just do awful things and think that's fine, then no. If they screw up because they're not perfect people, that's different.<br />Roshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02669423378438380019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-70539659127601753662013-07-09T12:08:26.103-04:002013-07-09T12:08:26.103-04:00Great post! I love reading about less-than-perfect...Great post! I love reading about less-than-perfect heroines. I love it when they're different from the run-of-the-mill heroines. BUT at the same time, for me, they have to at least be either likable OR interesting (or at least entertaining, if they can't quite manage either of the others). I don't have to like my main characters, but they can't be boring or over-the-top obnoxious. They have to have some redeeming quality, or I won't enjoy reading the book. Which most of them do.Sharon (A Book Barbie)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03923363390909309303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-46504024491878895262013-07-09T11:50:43.839-04:002013-07-09T11:50:43.839-04:00There is a distinction between flawed and unlikabl...There is a distinction between flawed and unlikable. I find flaws very likable, but only certain kinds of flaws. I find perfection and wholeness very uninteresting.<br /><br />Some of this, as you say, depends on our personality. If I'm at a party (and I try not to be at one), but if I am, I'm likely to hang out with the snarky loners rather than the sweet, polite, fit-er-in-ers. The second type is more "likable" than the snarky loners, but I value humor and commiseration, and intelligence and am less likely to find those qualities in "likable."<br /><br />Also, I'm not very likable, so there is that. I like to see myself--or some remote, long-lost or future-possible version of myself in the heroes & heroines, and flawed is where I find that.Cherri Porterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05109595206075746565noreply@blogger.com