tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post2656084106635076098..comments2024-03-18T16:04:41.883-04:00Comments on Romance Around the Corner: Heroine Week, Day 2 – Flawed Heroines and the Likeability Standard by Rebecca Rogers MaherRomance Around the Cornerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11204919057662563713noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-87529402618295859782013-07-28T20:49:23.087-04:002013-07-28T20:49:23.087-04:00Thank you! So glad you stopped by!Thank you! So glad you stopped by!Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-88771204344594989342013-07-14T10:28:34.219-04:002013-07-14T10:28:34.219-04:00I love this post-some great food for thought for m...I love this post-some great food for thought for me to ponder! I especially like the "how dare she!" part.The Insouciant Sophisticatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03934853089105345052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-68279819114551152712013-07-12T11:37:28.086-04:002013-07-12T11:37:28.086-04:00Yes, I think so. One aspect that troubles me is th...Yes, I think so. One aspect that troubles me is that we're often competing with each other for the attentions of men, some of whom are much less bad-ass and awesome than we are! Or would be if we just let loose and did our own thing. So again I say, set that bitch loose! :) Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-50994466918117915122013-07-11T11:38:21.595-04:002013-07-11T11:38:21.595-04:00This rings so, so true. Especially this:
I was bu...This rings so, so true. Especially this:<br /><br /><i>I was busy selling a version of myself that took a lot of effort—like a ballerina with broken toes smiling prettily—and meanwhile, this lady was getting away with showing her messy inside on the outside. How dare she??</i><br /><br />I think this is <i>exactly</i> what the insistence on heroines being likeable is all about: How dare she! If you've spent all this time and effort presenting yourself as likeable and easy and tamping down on the mess, seeing someone getting away with not doing so makes the point that all that effort was in vain. Rosariohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13015659149421085931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-8821179875718978572013-07-10T18:40:16.451-04:002013-07-10T18:40:16.451-04:00Aunt Joanie, adopt me please! I'm going to che...Aunt Joanie, adopt me please! I'm going to check out Dirt for sure. There definitely seems to be more experimentation with heroines on cable TV, which is so great. I absolutely loved Laura Dern on Enlightened and Regina King on Southland -- both powerful, challenging women.Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-53732211971396720922013-07-10T18:36:45.240-04:002013-07-10T18:36:45.240-04:00You put that so well, Cleo. One thing I really hat...You put that so well, Cleo. One thing I really hate is when I've got a nice pleasant burning hatred going for another woman and then I realize what I can't stand about her is really something about myself I'm trying to stifle. Ugh! Can't I have any fun?? Once I realize it, I don't know that I necessarily start loving the woman, but I might learn something from knowing her. I figure that's true for heroines as well, as you say. I'll check out the Darlene Marshall book -- thank you! Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-66438458185871391372013-07-10T15:54:06.272-04:002013-07-10T15:54:06.272-04:00For some reason I can't seem to get anything t...For some reason I can't seem to get anything to happen when I hit "reply". *sigh* I think t-shirts would we awesome. Though we might also want to consider Aunt Joanie’s other main quotable: "What do I care, he he's not making me cum." which I use FREELY in response to situations where I’m supposed to care about offending someone and I really don’t see why. <br /><br />Also, sign me up as another who ADORED Dirt. I think there are a few others who come close, Nurse Jackie, The Closer (both Brenda and Laura are hard to like and I sometimes wince at how they treat the people who love them), Joanie on Deadwood (who I freaken adored), Ava on Justified, the collective women of Mad Men. <br />Isobel Carrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03153722955365985930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-70802543102616139602013-07-10T13:43:13.694-04:002013-07-10T13:43:13.694-04:00Wow, this post brought tears to my eyes. I think ...Wow, this post brought tears to my eyes. I think you're speaking some important truths here. Especially this - "you know what’s the great thing about real romance? It will unlock those attic doors and set that bitch loose. Because that’s what love does." Amen.<br /><br />One heroine that I couldn't decide if I liked or not, is in The Bride and The Buccaneer by Darlene Marshall. It's a romp - the h/h work with/against each other to find pirate treasure. The heroine is completely, unapologetically out for herself, to the point of seeming amoral, and I really had a problem with her. I don't care for amoral heroes either, but I think this heroine bugged me more because it went so against how I was socialized (to you know, put other people's needs ahead of my own). I think that's part of your point - one of the values of a "difficult" heroine is in pointing out the parts in ourselves we'd rather pretend aren't there.cleohttp://home.comcast.net/~cp-epperly/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-10979750042114166612013-07-10T10:31:21.236-04:002013-07-10T10:31:21.236-04:00It's a delicate balance, though, right? Flawed...It's a delicate balance, though, right? Flawed but not too flawed, sweet but not too sweet? Good-looking but not intimidatingly so and not vain about it? Feels like we're walking on a high wire sometimes. I think the thing I would most like in the world is to be able to read a female character or meet a real-life woman, and just accept her fully for herself, to be curious about her and interested in her motivations, and not be measuring us against each other defensively, you know what I mean? But I think that takes a certain amount of self-acceptance first. Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-15294327954508078262013-07-10T10:22:03.634-04:002013-07-10T10:22:03.634-04:00I never saw Dirt, and now I'm bummed. All the ...I never saw Dirt, and now I'm bummed. All the good shows get canceled. My two favorites were canned recently -- Enlightened and Southland -- and it seriously made me question humanity. Such devastating writing, acting, and directing -- and some seriously flawed, wonderful women -- and nobody was watching? Gah.Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-80514291364590583862013-07-10T10:18:10.029-04:002013-07-10T10:18:10.029-04:00I'm on it. I need a summer show!I'm on it. I need a summer show!Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-53806785276080228722013-07-10T10:17:33.170-04:002013-07-10T10:17:33.170-04:00I haven't read Unforgiven yet, but I love Anne...I haven't read Unforgiven yet, but I love Anne Calhoun's writing, so I'm gonna get on that. Maybe the fact that you liked the heroine is a sign that you have an expansive definition of likeable, which is great! Let all the jerky women loose, world! Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-21359040407547524852013-07-10T09:38:56.972-04:002013-07-10T09:38:56.972-04:00It's been off for years, but you can watch thr...It's been off for years, but you can watch through Amazon or Netflix. It's pretty freaking astonishing. the passionate readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05564387590086409663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-45254882098068780272013-07-10T08:36:44.908-04:002013-07-10T08:36:44.908-04:00I didn't find the heroine in Unforgiven unlike...I didn't find the heroine in Unforgiven unlikeable...but given Rebecca's awesome new approach to looking at female characters I need to think about it some more...Molly O'Keefehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15171236688541657736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-65893927116524900362013-07-10T01:40:14.783-04:002013-07-10T01:40:14.783-04:00I think there's a lot of women socialised to &...I think there's a lot of women socialised to "be nice" and "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" and I think that women tend to judge each other more harshly than men do sometimes. But a super nice heroine makes my teeth ache with all the sugar. I'd rather have someone who is flawed and who isn't so intimidatingly perfect - they're much more interesting to read about and I'd much rather be friends with them actually. Kaetrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16936055488367251592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-6890131812537377902013-07-09T20:36:46.458-04:002013-07-09T20:36:46.458-04:00We had a female Tony Soprano - it was Courtney Cox...We had a female Tony Soprano - it was Courtney Cox's character on her short-lived FX series, Dirt. Editor-in-chief at a sleazy tabloid - sort of like if Us Weekly, OK and The National Enquirer had a threesome. She was a bitch, and you weren't really sure if she genuinely cared about some of the secondary characters (is there a heart of gold there?), or just cared about what they could do for her (OK, maybe not....). I loved that show beyond all reason - and the damn writer's strike killed it. Well that and not-so-good ratings. Cougar Town lives but Dirt gets shit-canned? There really is no justice in Hollywood.....<br /><br />Sigh.<br /><br />And I need to catch up with review books so I can read more Charlotte Stein.....Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12485867264936716806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-20150113380355861072013-07-09T18:56:19.179-04:002013-07-09T18:56:19.179-04:00Thank you! Isn't Charlotte Stein the best? She...Thank you! Isn't Charlotte Stein the best? She just makes you SQUIRM, and it's so fantastic and visceral and real. Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-63218999438487741372013-07-09T18:48:29.712-04:002013-07-09T18:48:29.712-04:00Agreed. Absolutely.Agreed. Absolutely.Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-86452770346035395782013-07-09T18:46:41.541-04:002013-07-09T18:46:41.541-04:00Why am I not watching that show? I love her.Why am I not watching that show? I love her.Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-44842577773359343852013-07-09T18:45:45.142-04:002013-07-09T18:45:45.142-04:00Can I make that quote into a T-shirt? And then wea...Can I make that quote into a T-shirt? And then wear it every day and never wash it?Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-26321580699360659632013-07-09T18:44:04.744-04:002013-07-09T18:44:04.744-04:00Brie, that is a fantastic essay. Thank you for sha...Brie, that is a fantastic essay. Thank you for sharing it. Did you see this one? Also great. http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2013/06/i-was-manic-pixie-dream-girl-now-i%E2%80%99m-busy-casting-spells-myselfRebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-76112756562629948892013-07-09T18:40:54.250-04:002013-07-09T18:40:54.250-04:00They are out there, yes -- thank goodness! Those p...They are out there, yes -- thank goodness! Those prickly bitches. I love them!Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-10300259924822755922013-07-09T18:39:41.901-04:002013-07-09T18:39:41.901-04:00This post is so amazing, and I think Charlotte Ste...This post is so amazing, and I think Charlotte Stein's heroines are such a perfect example. As I begin reading one of her books, I am always uncomfortable. Because the heroine is thinking what I would be thinking and that is a hard truth to see reflected back at you when you are trying to be something else, but then she pulls you in with that honesty of character.<br /><br />This hits so many nails on the head. Things I've tried to work out and never quite gotten to the center. Love, love, love.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-68876910717243980082013-07-09T18:38:48.295-04:002013-07-09T18:38:48.295-04:00All hail Laura Kinsale!All hail Laura Kinsale!Rebecca Rogers Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328283811756853851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4861127753744077469.post-12254624112371103412013-07-09T18:03:36.363-04:002013-07-09T18:03:36.363-04:00THIS.
I like this kind of heroine. Complex, flawe...THIS.<br /><br />I like this kind of heroine. Complex, flawed, messy, good in parts. To me, that's not an 'unlikeable heroine', that's just a realistic character. Because the people that I like in real life are also complex, flawed, messy and good in parts. Roshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02669423378438380019noreply@blogger.com